Reacting to events overnight in Ukraine ALBA Westminster Leader Neale Hanvey MP said:
“ALBA condemns the violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. Russian recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk as independent republics is a serious breach of the Minsk protocols.
“This is a moment for cool heads and careful words if we are to avoid a Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse. We need an intensification of diplomatic efforts, dialogue and restraint. A hot war in Europe could quickly spiral with catastrophic consequences stretching far beyond the economy.
“Sanctions can and should be introduced and in terms of dirty London money are long overdue but they must be carefully targeted if they are not to be counterproductive to our own economic security. The spike in energy prices is already being felt in every household across these islands.
“The task is, as it has always been, how to ensure respect for Ukraine’s rights as an independent country including the recognition of the rights of the Russian speaking minority as stated in the Minsk accords. All of which has to be reconciled with Russia’s own security interests. That requires our acceptance that assurances were offered in the 1990s about NATO expansion eastward which have not been kept.
“The emphasis at this critical moment should be on de-escalation not escalation. At the end of the day conflict can only be resolved through dialogue and negotiation.”
None of your business Angloids. Sook up the arse of Nato at your own peril. And you just repeated the mistake the SNP made, putting the interests of foreign lands above your own. Morons.
NATO has only expanded because of Russia’s behaviour. Russia is a scary country that continues to attack, invade and occupy its neighbours.
Russia is the playgound bully that complains that none of the other kids like him.
Pontifex: yes, Russia should never be under-estimated, but neither should it be over-estimated in order to drum up support for a Third World War – which is what it will be if the NATO countries attack. Putin is nobody’s fool, and he will not attack the Balkan States precisely because they are part of NATO, and the NATO principle is all for one, much as the three musketeers.
Ukraine could have made baby steps, over time, into Europe proper, by declaring its neutrality from both sides. It chose not to do so. It is not a stable regime there either, and it is fairly right-wing. The other former Soviet states that are now independent – Poland, et al – are almost all part of NATO now, and the same principle applies: if Russia were to attack, a world war would ensue, and it would not be confined to conventional weapons, but nuclear weapons would almost certainly be used in order to stave off defeat, and that applies to both sides.
If Russia and its allies won, the West would be finished; if the West won, the East would be finished. The only winner would be China. Do you seriously believe that Putin is as mad as a box of frogs? Not even Stalin contemplated instigating a world war, and tried to fend off German aggression until Russia was in a better position to defend itself by moving his armaments and heavy industry to the Urals, although he did seem to under-estimate the German will to invade in search of much-needed resources.
The Russian pre-occupation since WW II has been defence, as ours would be, too, if we had been invaded almost non-stop by the various European nationals, including the now-passive Swedes, who, like Napoleon’s France and Hitler’s Germany, were soundly beaten by the climate and the massive sacrifice of the Russian (and Soviet) people. I have no drum to beat on Putin’s behalf, but neither do I have o the West’s behalf, and the sabre rattling has to stop. The bare truth is that nothing Putin is doing has not been done by the Western nations, including the most sabre rattling of the lot, the UK and the US, who have each breached international law on the rights of nations to exist, so, please, less of the sanctimony and more of the forward thinking.
The chances are that Putin will occupy the two republics of Donetsk and Luhansk and stop there because he will have pushed the frontier back towards Europe and left two spoilers on Ukrainian soil. I feel heart sorry for any people who don’t want the big neighbour next door trampling all over them, but we can’t risk WW III over this. Ukraine itself has not acted strategically or sensibly in its own interest, as it failed to do in WW II when it allied itself to Germany, to all intents and purposes. War is always the result of a failure of nerve and sense, and it is always the innocents who suffer.
The rhetoric from Sturgeon for some odd reason reminds me of the Spanish Civil War where Scots went off to Spain.
I am well aware that is very unlikely, nevertheless sanctions Yes ,
But she really needs to tone it down
Of course not everyone would think of the SCW
Still the ALBA statement addresses the issue at this moment in time
I’ll be betting she brings up RT
Well said, Neale Hanvey. The SNP seems desperate to wrap itself in the butcher’s apron. The SNP thinks it has more gunboats than liar Johnson and his English imperialists.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Indeed, Doug. It really worries me that the SNP leadership recognizes no parallels between other buffer states and Scotland. I’m not saying that our interests in this instance don’t lie with the UK – actually, we have little choice in the matter – but gung-ho, sabre rattling should never be a part of Scotland’s government’s remit. It would be much more sensible to try and use diplomacy with Westminster to steer them away from their usual bulldog arrogance and slavish adherence to American policy. We would be a mere fly landing on Putin’s bonce, easily swatted away.
Very disappointing and does nor conform with facts.
Try reading about the 2014 putsch in Kyiv and the Minsk agreement. And explain why NATO is now up to Russia’s borders (see Genscher’s recollections).
We should be supporting these Russian-speaking republics who have been under attack by the Ukrainian army – featuring openly Nazi units.
Try reading Craig Murray and John Pilger inter alia.
The Minsk Protocols have, indeed, been breached, but what on Earth did the West think was going to happen when they encouraged Ukrainian ambitions to join NATO? They have made the same mistakes they made before the annexation of Crimea because, simply put, Putin cannot afford to be sitting next to a NATO state or to one that blocks Russian access to the Black Sea. Ergo, both these situations were eminently predictable. Ukraine could have stated that it would remain neutral from both sides, and that would have protected it to a great degree against Russian aggression and Western exploitation.
Putin was always going to keep those two republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, both with substantial ethnic Russian populations, as pawns. Now, they will be Russia’s buffer states, which the Baltic States are not because the Russian populations in those states voted, with the ethnic Balkans, not to adhere to Russia, and later, they each joined NATO. Stipulations were given to the Russians when the two German states decided to re-unite that NATO would not take the opportunity to push eastwards. If Putin has breached the Minsk Protocols, the West has also breached the German re-unification agreement, and there are grave breaches of territorial integrity on the part of both the UK and the US in plain sight, too.
Self-righteousness will get us nowhere fast, and, while there may be some sanctions that can be applied, they are few and far between, in reality, and given Europe’s need for resources from the Russians and the Tory party being steeped to the eyeballs in Russian oligarchs’ lolly. It’s a game of bluff and counter-bluff for now, and I doubt that Russians want war anymore than we do – apart from the usual drum-beaters who are always very quick to call for the sacrifice of the children of the poor, of course, and never their own.
Many people do not realise that Crimea was only part of Ukraine for 60 years. That is, the 60 years preceding its annexation. Yes, it became part of Ukraine during the Soviet era, when allegedly Brezhnev used a game of cards to decide whether the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic would be administered by the Russian SSR or the Ukrainian SSR. That was in 1953 (the decision) but I think the transfer took place in 1954.
Yes, indeed, Scottie. The Crimea is the home of the Tatar people. One of the policies of the Soviet Union was to mix up its populations, which is why there are many Russians in Crimea and in the Donbas republics. Whole populations were uprooted and relocated during WW II, including the Russo-Germans. It is what all empires do, without exception. We were no better. The Fijians, part of the British Empire, are a mix of South Seas islanders and black slaves; the Tamils of Sri Lanka are originally from India and were brought by the British to the then Ceylon; and Indians were encouraged to come to Uganda and other African states at the behest of the British. This uprooting of peoples and deliberately relocating them on the soil of less-than-enthusiastic locals almost invariably leads to conflict. Many Ukrainians supported Hitler in WW II and vestiges of that right-wing faction still exists in Ukraine today. The Russians were never able to fully trust the Ukrainians after that.
Hi, I think everyone should take the time to watch Yesterdays’ Putin’ speech, long but very informative on the historical build up of the situation. Keep mind open and critical judgement as well🤣
As far as Russian Oligarchs are concerned, it seems to be a very targetted and harmless set of sanctions. Why don’t they ban Russian oligarchs money in English football? Why don’t they sanction Ukrainian oligarchs interests in the all UK, as Ukraine is breaching the Minsk Agreement by deploying heavy military at the Russian border, using heavy weaponery to shell the ukrainian populations in these two regions with weapons acquired few weeks ago and shipped by Nato’s afiliated countries. The Civil war did it strat Yesterday but more than 5 years ago.
We are not far from seeing atrocities there on our screens and BBC will not get away with burrying the facts. Nobody can understand the situation unless the historical context since the first decade of the 20ieth century is reminded or learnt. Wipping out History, keeping people in ignorance, falsificating the facts is the ultimate weapon. That is what all political parties have been trying to do for more than a century. Starting with the so called Socilalists supposedly “Rousseau’s children” who under cover of Progress have tried to make us believe that Construction does not need Fundations …
This is a phoney war Putin, Sleepy Joe Biden and BoJo have contrived this escapade up to keep their population focused on this nonsense its all fake news , their will be no war. Meantime no one is questioning the death rate from covid or failed economic policies. They will all claim a diplomatic victory , a win win for them all . The elites are ripping the piss.
Reminds me of the biblical parable about removing the stick from one’s own eyes.Easy to portray Russia as the bad guy. They have been used as a scapegoat for decades but the real threat has always been Western countries invading other territories and creating military bases on others doorsteps. Even Scotland has other countries using it for military training and target practise. Before condemning Russia take the stick out your own eye. It is laughable that they complain about other countries recognising the sovereignty of others when they fail to recognise or assert Scotland ‘s sovereignty which everyone bar the Scots recognises!
I am uncomfortable with Neal Hanvey’s intervention per se, though recognizing and welcoming its reserved multilateral tenor. I must confess that it was the following two sentences which rather got to me: “ALBA condemns the violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. Russian recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk as independent republics is a serious breach of the Minsk protocols.”
The matter, I suggest, is fraught on so many levels. What if (come the happy day) a nascent Scottish Republic “violates” the UK’s “sovereignty and territorial integrity”? Who shall we look to internationally for support? The European Union? But it tacitly accepted Catalonia’s brutal suppression following “violation” of Spain’s “sovereignty and territorial integrity”. America? I think not, despite (see below) Barack Obama’s own 2014 “violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity”.
And let us not forget Obama’s 2014 verbal intervention (ostensibly at the behest of Cameron) against Scottish independence. We are surely naive not to assume that America has already been long colluding with England to undermine due democratic process in Scotland, and will continue to do so for as long as it takes to stifle Scotland’s last freedom-whimpering breath.
George Dale’s comment above draws our attention to relevant views expressed by Craig Murray and John Pilger. (We could add Peter Hitchens.) I link to a John Pilger analysis below. There is of course no doubt that Russia is a cynical and self-serving State. But the USA has been toppling democratically elected governments throughout the planet all my longish life. It is indeed a dismal tale. Perhaps when the Scottish democratic uprising finally catches us by surprise we should look first to Scandinavia (and to a coherent re-united Ireland) for recognition.
Pilger writes –
« Following the coup in Ukraine in 2014 – orchestrated by Barack Obama’s “point person” in Kyiv, Victoria Nuland – the coup regime, infested with neo-Nazis, launched a campaign of terror against Russian-speaking Donbas, which accounts for a third of Ukraine’s population. Overseen by CIA director John Brennan in Kyiv, “special security units” coordinated savage attacks on the people of Donbas, who opposed the coup. Video and eyewitness reports show bussed fascist thugs burning the trade union headquarters in the city of Odessa, killing 41 people trapped inside. The police are standing by. Obama congratulated the “duly elected” coup regime for its “remarkable restraint”. In the US media the Odessa atrocity was played down as “murky” and a “tragedy” in which “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) attacked “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). »
WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA
by John Pilger (17 Feb 2022)
http://johnpilger.com/articles/war-in-europe-and-the-rise-of-raw-propaganda
Hear hear. In my opinion a stupid mistake to support the Ukrainian crushing of the people in Donetsk and Luhansk’s right of self determination which is exactly the same as Catalonia’s. Please Alba, stop jumping on the neo liberal bandwagon
Well said.
However legitimate the grievances of Russian-speakers in Donbas, Putin’s wholesale invasion of sovereign Ukraine is despicably incommensurate and geopolitically ominous.
What we’re witnessing is the enforcement of the Washington consensus in the new age of imperialism! Who will be the “winners”?: Big-Oil and the Military Industrial Complex. And the losers?: The huge and powerless majority of us, as always.
It sad that Scots helped wright the American constitution and declaration of independence the Scots done more to set up America on a democratic path than anyother race however this is not reciprocated we are denied democracy and self determination. Obama knew the the ugly face of colonialism at first hand but done nothing assist us in fact he did the opposite. Irish reunification is good but Scottish independence isint its devisive how did he work that one out. Independence was ok for America and every other country that left their rotten British Empire To me Obama was a hypocrite even Putin didint get involved in playing Cameron’s UK,ok game.
Maybe the Russians are not that bad guys after all.
I wonder will ALBA condemn the violation of Scottish sovereignty and territorial integrity.
I know it was a wee while ago and had our unelected rulers not capitulated there was a large standing English army at the border just waiting for the order to invade and slaughter the population.
Pity looks like Alba and the SNP are jumping on the Neo liberal western agenda and here was me thinking that things would be different when we become independent.
Wullie: it would be far better for Scotland to adopt a neutral stance post independence. In the end, it might not save us as a country’s neutrality is only as strong as the aggressor’s will not to invade. However, being the UK’s nuclear target is an extremely foolish position to take. Like you, I fear that the UK influence is too strong for any Scottish independence party to break out of. The SNP has shown disturbingly pro American/pro British tendencies towards neo liberal values and unfettered capitalism that have all but destroyed us.
The Bots are here tonight !