“What is the point of yet another SNP mandate?” asks ALBA’s Hanvey
“The ballot papers have barely been packed away and the SNP is now backing away from its independence referendum commitment”
This was said by Kirkcaldy ALBA MP Neale Hanvey commenting on SNP Deputy Westminster leader, Kristin Oswald MP, refusing to commit to an independence referendum next year.
Pressed repeatedly by Martin Geissler on the BBC Sunday Show Ms Oswald declined to say that Scots would be in the polling stations next year voting for independence.
Mr Hanvey commented:
“In the run up to the local elections the SNP were firm that there would be a referendum next year a they have promised. Now two days later there is an entire lexicon of excuses and evasions.
“Let us be quite clear. If the SNP deliver as pledged the ALBA Party and indeed all other Yes groupings will unite behind the independence banner.
“However, if they renege then they will reap the Electoral whirlwind from the hundreds of thousands of Scots demanding action not evasion on independence”
I’m not really surprised at this, though I certainly hope they reap a whirlwind if they do nothing.
My other hope is that someone will blow the whistle and expose the whole Salmond prosecution and trial as a deliberate attempt to destroy someone feared by the Establishment in both Scotland and the UK by means of a corrupt conspiracy of liars.
And still the sheep will give them “just one more chance”. If anyone else tells me that they re the only viable vehicle to independence I may turn nasty,
Problem is, as we all know, a referendum with the 2014 franchise is a sure loss. So what do we do if the SNP offer this, knowing we would be on a hiding to nothing? Do we all unite behind a losing strategy for which, in any case, the SNP/SG have done absolutely no preparation?
That is an excellent point. What makes it so much worse, Angry, is that any kind of f*****g PRE independence referendum is totally, completely, utterly unnecessary in either domestic constitutional law or in international law. Pardon my French
I’m starting to wonder if there is a route to independence. A referendum is a sure loss. A plebiscite in 2024 would be controlled by Westminster and subject to all sorts of nasty goings on. A convention of the estates (or other gathering) would mainly include elected politicians and based on the two most recent examples, virtually 100% of those elected are unionists or devolutionists who won’t vote for independence. Is there another way, short of taking up arms?
I believe there are several routes which all converge, and they are constitutional tools. I agree that any kind of referendum now is a non-starter, and Nicola Sturgeon knows it, always has. 2014 was our only chance by that route and we failed to take it. I’m not saying that using constitutional tools will success overnight, but they are the only way – bar, as you say, armed conflict – of getting though to Westminster by putting them on the defensive. Frankly, this should have been done immediately after 2014, but Sturgeon allowed the wokerati to both infiltrate and spread its tentacles throughout the party, effectively ruling out any move towards independence. I keep saying this, but very few seem to get it: these people are not interested in independence; their agenda is much bigger than the SNP or Scotland or the UK, even, although the plan is to capture Scotland and spread to England where the bigger prize lies, but the English are not quite as naive as we are, thank goodness. It is allowing independence to fester that eventually leads to armed conflict and no one wants that. Sinn Fein has used the constitutional tool of the NI Protocol to garner support, even from moderate Unionists who see through the Westminster arrogance and dismissive attitude to their concerns. Sara Salyers is right: this is the route we should be following because it will poke England and Westminster with a sharp stick and force a reaction. They are quite happy to let Sturgeon make her promises before each election that they know and she knows, she will never keep. The only people who don’t know are the fodder that keep on voting SNP.
Why can’t others see this? I’m still having conversations with reasonable, intelligent people who are convinced that the SNP is the only route to indy and that we will have a referendum next year. They are, all of them, strong indy supporters but still can’t seem to see the flaws in the SNP. How the hell have people become so propagandized? Is it just clinging on to hope or is it cognitive dissonance? It really is harder to convince these people that we are being conned than it was to convince Unionists that we could be a viable, independent country. They are so defensive of Sturgeon too – despite the fact that the local infrastructure is crumbling and people are struggling to live. I genuinely give up on them.
Depressingly none of this is a surprise. It is my view that the next election would be the perfect time for a pebiste. (2024 End Colonial Rule) . We need to bypass Sturgoen and her pretend independence party to achieve this. We could create candidates to stand up for a Desolve the Union party on that ticket for every election going forward. Forget crooked referendums and permission from our colonial imperial masters. We are sovereign this is our democracy show Colonialism the door.
The not gullible saw this coming. We telt ye, Sturgeon apologists!
If they don’t hold indy ref 2 next year then I won’t be voting for them again ,if we can’t get independence now with the state of England then we will never get it.
I’m not doubting your decision, but I know folk who have said the same thing after every broken election promise and were still giving Sturgeon ‘one last chance’ in the run up to last week’s election and will probably give her ‘one last chance’ at the next election.
The trouble is if you have only one or two independence (and to be honest I’d only count the Greens as a half) what to do? I can’t bear not to vote and spoiling my paper would only have increased the chances of the Unionists in my council area. She really has us over a barrel. Grrrr!
Vote ALBA
I feel vindicated in not voting for them at the last Holyrood election – my reason being that I didn’t want my vote to be taken as an endorsement of the GRA – and what did the “great Leader” say about GRA after her victory? “The people voted for these reforms”. George Carlin was right – don;t blame the people who don;t vote – they didn’t put these clowns into power. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxsQ7jJJcEA
I totally agree with you Alastair. Time to get up and take back our country. Sturgeon & Co are a total waste of our time.
No surprise there. SNP is now a unionist party. MPsand MSPs are all greedy self serving parasites on ego trips. When the sheep will eventually see they have been conned is another matter. They just refuse to admit they have been lied to for Seven years. Meanwhile Scotland is slowly dying.
There is an unstated problem here, one which I hope the SSRG recognise.
Through the trappings of Holyrood, especially Holyrood under Sturgeon, Scotland is being repeatedly seduced and swindled by a democratic process which ISN’T sovereign. That is a Constitutional impropriety here in Scotland, because Scotland’s rightful and lawful democracy IS sovereign. Thus, we have two very distinct, and very dissimilar, types of democracy at large here.
Scotland’s people urgently need the matter clarified. Is our democracy in Scotland a sovereign Scottish democracy, or instead a version of UK democracy administered by a colonial “Vichy” regime which alleges the Scottish people are NOT sovereign?
The moment Holyrood pledges itself to respecting the protocols of UK “democracy”, (which seems to have happened already, when Sturgeon capitulated to Brexit), then Scotland has no representation, but suddenly has a “body” masquerading as a Government which does not itself recognise the ascendancy of Scotland’s popular sovereignty.
Scotland must therefore URGENTLY recognise the distinction, and reject without question the faux protocols of UK “democracy”, where both a figurehead Scottish “Government” administers an unconstitutional referendum process, given faux legitimacy by a UK “supreme” Court which has no jurisdiction to interfere with the covenant between the Scottish people and their Constitutional Sovereignty. There is no component is that process of colonial subjugation which we can expect to break ranks from the UK Establihment and defend Scotland’s sovereign integrity.
I keep raising the case of Martin Keatings, because I am quite certain testing the potency of a devolved “UK” assembly, set up by a Westminster Act of Parliament, swearing fealty to a UK Monarch, and bound by UK legislation dictated by a UK Supreme Court, was never going to deviate from the case put in front of it, to run away and make it’s decision after due reference to Scotland’s Auld Constitutional Sovereignty. For one thing, it has no jurisdiction there.
Martin Keatings was of good heart, but he was asking the wrong question, to the wrong people, using alien protocols from a foreign legislature, seeking an adjudication which they have no jurisdiction to deliver.
I repeat myself again. We have two very distinct, and very dissimilar, types of democracy here. An uninvited UK version of sub-sovereign democracy making itself at home in Scotland where it’s legitimacy is false and unconstitutional, and a very dissimilar but dormant Scottish version Sovereign democracy which has sovereign legitimacy in principle, but absolutely nothing in the way of mechanism or even codified protocol which enables Scotland’s people to express a sovereign resolution.
Man the barricades Scotland! Alert the watch! NOW! If we do not stand firm in defence of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, have it’s potency and legitimacy re-affirmed and recognised Internationally, then our sovereignty will be usurped and taken from us, and that process is already well advanced.
Scotland is gripped by an existential Constitutional crisis, and yet nearly all of us are floating around like aimless zombies waiting for Scotland’s duplicitous Gauleiter to initiate our Constitutional defence mechanisms.
She’s led us a bonny dance for SEVEN YEARS already, and STILL we wait like sheep…
To hell with Gauleiter Sturgeon. Get the Constitutional Assembly created Scotland. Get it done, so we can articulate our outrage and be heard.
I read the shit in the National about Alba of course they never mentioned the 9 million given to the MSM to completly black Alba .According to the National we are all right wing extremist, everyone I know in Alba Is a Socialist and well left of centre. This is not what you expect from a so called independence supporting paper.
We are being sold down the river by Sturgeon and the Nu SNP stupid followers ,backed by a save the Union press. The Nicola cult will keep us in their rotten Union deliberately lose a referendum on the rigged franchise and by a lack of commitment campaigning. Sturgeon will then disappear to a top UN job as her reward for treachery. One nation Brexit land a greater England will emerge, you shall have nothing and be happy ,the food banks will be free. Being a Celt in this the land dominated by the Saxon will get worse. If only we had the courage of the Irish and dare I say Brains.
Yes, the thing is, Alba supporters will be described as ‘ right-wing’ according to the official narrative concocted by the SNP, the irony being that SNP politics, following the neoliberal orthodoxy of the Atlanticist movement is the very definition of right-wing. Not only that, to us they are the epitome of a colonialist party, doing nothing to extricate Scotland from a toxic union which they only pretend to the gullible that they oppose.
However, Alba will be portrayed as right-wing to their youth voters (and in the paid-for media) based simply on the opposition to the unthinking GRA support which avoids calm and open discussion and sees no need at all for safeguarding, opting instead for demonizing that opposition with less than apt slogans and smearing, not to mention prosecutions. The irony again, of course, is that they are neither progressive nor democratic in their fanatical devotion to imposing ill-considered legislation without debate. What progressive movement has ever been able to call on the forces of law and order and major institutions to accede to their demands? What progressive movement has ever had the pillars of the establishment on their side from political parties to members of the judiciary, medical services, media and the police? Did the anti-war movement or gay rights movement have such powerful allies in their struggles against that very same uncaring authority which now aims to outlaw any criticism of GRA ‘reform’? Sometimes you would be forgiven for thinking that the world has been turned upside down and intolerant, authoritarian politics is now able to masquerade as ‘progressive’.
AWAKENED ONES just progress quietly until the horrific fuel bills hit this poor nation, and then let it be widely known that these quislings traitors,fifth columnists , … happily handed out nine million to keep the only politician ,and his supporters capable of leading us to successful independence ….out in the wilderness.
Is there an echo here from ancient world history?
There is it seems, an orchestrated plan, now in progress to undermine the sovereignty of every nation in
preparation for the implementation of a one world government. We must not let it succeed, but most definetly
the sleeping souls need to awaken NOW.
The great reset is coming, the elites want everything and for you to have nothing.
The first step is to impoverish you through excessive energy and food costs to ensure your submissiveness though a so called allocated living wage which will only be issued to you for your compliance. Second phase is the move to a digital money system, the state will deny you access to your money for noncompliance and desent. The easiest way for the state to steal your money is if it is digital. That way you cannot hide it under the bed it is not tangible, It can disappear at the push of a button. This is not a conspiracy theory this was done and trialled with the truckers in Canada who recently went on strike, and couldn’t get access their bank accounts. All Politicians are in the pocket of Big business corporations and the super rich.
Exactly – thank f**k I’m on my way out and not just coming into this world. What a shitshow it is. Could there be a turning point? Will people finally rise up against the oppressors – or will they be too busy watching shite on their giant, cycloptic, propaganda screen voluntarily installed in their own homes, and still hoping for that two weeks in the sun as a reward for all their devotion to the “man”? JFC, it’s depressing.
Wee Chid: I know exactly how you feel. I think, for the first time in my life I have begun to appreciate just how deep stupidity, or gullibility or whatever it is, can go in very intelligent people. I got inklings of this refusal to shift, to look at anything that made them uncomfortable, when I was a student. People who are maybe not so apparently clever, or who are not well-educated are often the first to see things, while some educated people seem to have a barrier against anything that doesn’t chime with their established thought patterns. It isn’t everyone, of course, because you can be bright and perceptive and self-aware, but it does seem to be more obvious in educated people. Perhaps it is just conditioning to be nice and kind and give others the benefit of the doubt, very middle-class?
To many of us, Nicola Sturgeon’s behaviour is transparent and repetitive in its mendacity; to others, she, like Baldric, always has a cunning plan. Perhaps, as Dr Johnson said in a different context, it is hope over experience. I honestly do not know, but I do know that it will destroy any chance of independence. I have also been struck by how willing and quick many men – not all, by any stretch, and certainly not Roddy, who has been a champion – in the movement are to sacrifice women and girls and children to the GRA Reform Bill because they believe that, if it’s out of the way, independence can be achieved thereafter. The delusion is bigger than Scotland itself because they haven’t joined the dots: alienate women and you alienate a large chunk of the independence vote. Women like me will hold their noses and vote for any chance of independence, but many will not and I can’t find it in my heart to blame them.