In 1999 at the first Scottish Parliamentary Election, the people of Scotland for the first time used the hated D’Hondt/AMS voting system. We later learned of course, that this system had purposely been selected by Donald Dewar of British Labour Party and Malcolm Bruce of the British Liberal Party to ensure that no one party could ever attain a majority. (more on that later) The Liberals as we know are the biggest political whores in all of Christendom. They are probably better described as a cheap hooker. They are bought so cheaply too, a student fee here a ministerial car there. Scottish Labour are yours for just the smell of ermine. Liberals give them a picture of a Jaguar dashboard, and they are yours for life. The Liberals of course, readily agreed to this new contrived voting system on the understanding that they would always be in power with the Labour Party in Scotland.
Back in those days useless, as they were the British Labour mob in Scotland would not countenance deals with the Tories. Besides the entire voting system was only ever brought in to ensure that the dreaded SNP never got a sniff of power. It did, however give a sniff of democracy by allowing them to win some regional seats or as they later became known List Seats. Then, unlike now the SNP were not known for winning FPTP seats and they only had a handful. In that first election it was the SNP’s best ever result, thanks to the List. However, they were still way short of getting anywhere near the levers of Scottish power. We have to remind ourselves again and again that was the main and sole purpose of the voting system not as some now try to claim to bring a level of proportionality and better democracy to Scotland.
Always view anything ever ‘given’ by the English Parliament as a trojan horse. When they gave us Regional Councils back in the 1970s, it was a reaction to the Winnie Ewing Hamilton victory of 1967. The day the Great Winnie won that seat alarm bells of the unionists went off all over Greater England. The House-Jocks got together with their English masters and hatched one of their many cunning plans. They would sell these new super-Regional council monstrosities as better than independence. They would give the Jockos the best of both worlds. Mother England would keep giving them a huge subsidy every year and these shiny new beads and mirrors called Regional Councils. In return we would be grateful as they managed that pesky black stuff that was temporarily polluting the British waters off of the Scottish coast. Our benefactors were sure this would be enough to keep the Jockistani peasants occupied while they pillaged the Scottish resources. When the 1974 UK General Election came round it seemed that the ungrateful natives had not taken the bribe as hoped. England and several ‘scottish’ collaborators explained before this election that there was so little oil in the North Sea that probably by Christmas 1975 it would be all gone. It was, of course, the wrong kind of oil and only suitable for home central heating systems and oiling car brakes.
Even more than Hamilton 1967 the 1974 UK General Election filled the unionist hearts with fear and their knickers with copious amounts of faeces. Campaigning on a slogan of ITS SCOTLAND’S OIL. The SNP won 11 seats in England’s imperial Parliament. Again the English imperialists and their Scottish House-Jocks needed something to distract and con the Scottish natives. That is when the Labour Party and their Liberal bitches came up with the disastrous Scottish Assembly wheeze. This was to be a toothless super-duper most advanced democratic institution in the entire planet. The beneficence of Mother England knows no bounds and on top of the shiny regional councils we were also to get this new even shinier Assembly because Mother England wanted only the best for her stupid, poor, weak little Jock neighbours. Also thanks to English ingenuity the pesky black stuff would now last right up until around October 1979 coincidentally just before another election of the English Parliament.
Back then the English masters were so confident of themselves that the SNP was told all they needed was a majority of Scottish MPs at Westminster to get our independence. Then that was as likely of happening as climbing Mount Everest in your sannies with a flask of tea and a spam sandwich. The Scottish Assembly plan was talked about for almost 5 years before Mother England aided again by another House-Jock, George Cunninghame of the 40%rule fame thwarted any chance of this Assembly coming into being. That triggered a load of actions that resulted in that woman and 19 years of Tory theft, destruction, corruption and decimation of industrial Scotland. Many communities have never recovered to this day. As each new election brought yet another Tory government, the oil ran out every election cycle and as we know it is doing the exact same thing now. When oil is being discussed at Westminster it is a great British asset. When it is introduced to any aspect regarding Scotland, it is volatile, a diminishing resource and something you cannot depend on for your economy unless of course you are the British Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The one thing Thatcher’s era did bring was our Holyrood Parliament. Let us though be quite clear it was not for your benefit. It was twofold, a secure redoubt for British Labour in the event of another Tory re-emergence. A launch pad and an insurance policy to keep the Jocks compliant and obedient voting fodder. The Welsh were given a similar shiny building just with fewer ‘powers’ because basically they didn’t threaten the English hegemony over Celtic Britain as much as the pesky Scots, and besides the Welsh had no oil, but they did have water and electricity Mother England needed.
That brings me the full circle back to Holyrood elections. In 2003 the Scottish voters became a bit smarter with this new fankled voting system. Like any ‘gift’ from the Brits its purpose was, always to protect the imperial desires of England. This time we had the same pre-ordained Lab/Lib government it was on the List that we had some surprises. We had 6 SSP MSPs, one Scottish Senior Citizens Party MSP, Seven Green MSPs, one Independent, Margo Macdonald on the List and miraculously two in FPTP seats Denis Canavan in Falkirk West and Jean Turner in Strathkelvin & Bearsden.
The SNP and their supporters were positively loving this List system. They used it to their advantage as did the Greens. Nobody thought or said that it was cheating, undemocratic, gaming the system nobody ever used the phrase ‘Splitting the vote!’ There was no talk of Westminster being forced to close down Holyrood because of the way people chose to vote on the List.
List voting was fine by everyone because, the status quo was not adversely affected. We still had a LabLib Executive (government) the SNP got a number of seats in both Constituencies and List but nowhere near enough to upset the apple cart. Everyone was happy. Indeed Scottish Independence supporters, in particular, loved this List system that allowed their democratic choice to have a voice.
Then came 2007, that old war horse Alex Salmond was back in the SNP saddle. He as always, was one step ahead of most and he deployed a List tactic that ultimately won the election for the SNP. His clever idea on the List to use Alex Salmond for First Minister SNP won the day and broke the mould. The SNP against all the odds and overcoming all the subterfuge of the Britnat House-Jocks and their complicated List voting mechanism had become a minority government. How the SNP and Independence supporters celebrated and applauded this use of the D’Hondt. Alex and the SNP took it on and beat the Brits at their own game. No shouts of gaming the system no shouts of cheating the PR of the parliament. No talk of the parliament being closed down by the Brits. Splitting the vote was mentioned by nobody. In 2011 the famous SNP ‘fluke’ victory. Again no shouts of gaming the system or Splitting the vote. Indeed SNP supporters and voters getting a bit wiser and more confident of SNP success in Constituencies felt more able to ‘gift’ their List/Second vote. It invariably was given it to those cuddly tree huggers who flirted a bit with Independence. Besides they were harmless and well meaning. No vote Splitting when you voted Green on the List not a hint of gaming the system. No threat to the Parliament by voting for them. Indeed, many viewed the Greens as the sort of Partick Thistle of the Parliament.
As it turned out, they weren’t so cuddly and not so good at giving back.They have proved themselves to be as duplicitous, as the Liberals. With OBFA they happily joined forces with Unionists to damage the SNP. reducing car parking spaces with a tax or removing women’s rights have been Green priorities. However, not once in the past 5 years, have they done anything to push independence any nearer.
As we enter election time once again SNP1 Greens 2 is something that doesn’t raise an eyebrow among supporters of Scottish Independence. Indeed many SNP luminaries, and a few elected members have in social media endorsed the idea of Greens on the List as acceptable. Apparently voting Green on the List causes no disquiet even among the SNP devotees and Nicola Sturgeon Fan Club.
That is why I find this vitriol and pure hatred directed towards, The Independence for Scotland Party, ISP strange to work out. Mention them by name on social media and the torrent of abuse and bile that pours down is as bad as anything you would hear from a Scotland in Union crowd talking about Nicola Sturgeon.
Apparently now for the first time ever you cannot vote for this Independence oriented party on the list because if you do you are ‘Splitting the vote’ ‘Gaming the system’ ‘Westminster will use it as an excuse to close down Holyrood.'(They don’t need to they are going to nullify it anyway!) Voting ISP who only stand on the List will somehow damage SNP chances in Constituencies. Funnily enough Green candidates who will be standing directly against the SNP in every region of Scotland in May don’t even rate a mention. You can vote for them safe in the knowledge they won’t harm the Independence cause or Nicola or SNP, allegedly!
I wish I had an explanation to offer you for this completely irrational behaviour by alleged SNP supporters. I don’t know why they are behaving like this. I understand why the Green voters are attacking and the Unionists too which of course, should be a red flag to Indy supporters however it isn’t! It seems SNP voters hate the ISP independence Party more than they hate Tories, Labour Liberals Brexit Parties combined. It is truly illogical behaviour.
I have openly expressed my intention to give my List Vote to the ISP in West of Scotland. I am not doing this to harm the SNP. I am doing this because if I voted SNP in the list my vote would count for nothing allowing a unionist to prevail. This way perhaps an Indy minded ISP MSP might win! This has brought many unsolicited viscious, attacks, fortunately like water of a, duck’s back to me. I will without doubt vote for my friend and SNP MSP Tom Arthur in the Renfrewshire South Constituency. I think though after the bile and abuse I have taken recently from so called fellow independinistas if it was anyone other than Tom I might not vote SNP. I do not expect I am alone in that, and I would caution the SNP supporters that direct such hatred and idiocy to fellow Independence supporting voters to think carefully before you start killing off your own votes by unfriendly, unwelcome and unnecessary abuse.
I would also appreciate if anyone can explain this recent phenomenon. Why is it for the first time ever that voting for a pro independence party on the Holyrood List is, so bad and so evil, so undemocratic and so dangerous to Scottish independence? Truly bizzare!
Why refer to the English political parties as British and not English? Call them what they actually are. The parliament of Great Britain is not an ENGLISH parliament despite it being used as such. If the Scots refuse to hold their own government to account and demand that they assert Scots sovereignty that isn’t the English establishment’s fault. That is all on the Scots. The English parties have always combined forces against Scotland and that isn’t going to change. It is just a pity that the Scots are so accustomed to fighting themselves that they cannot come together to fight for their own country. The 1998 Scotland Act which housed the Scottish administration was also drawn up and signed off by the ENGLISH GOVERNMENT. It had NOTHING to do with Scotland. That is what folk should remember. Additionally, it was NOT the Scots government that was devolved. Just who do Scots think the Scots government are devolved from? It boggles the mind how Scots logic works. A foreign country’s government can assert its sovereignty, act on its own behalf and govern every aspect of its country despite being in a trade agreement because it was an independent sovereign state that had ratified a trade agreement but when that logic is applied to Scotland suddenly Scots don’t have the same right or ability. They must be owned and held under dominion of its trade partner. And folk wonder why Scots turn on other Scots instead of pulling together. It is called brainwashing. Being so indoctrinated into a false belief system that they would literally discard anything and everything that challenges that belief even when it is in their best interests to discard the false beliefs.
If Scotland is to free itself and reclaim its statehood it first must free the minds of its people. You cannot after all free someone who doesn’t know they are held captive. And a loose chain is still a chain.
Excellent comment Gayle , the last sentence of which succinctly describes the challenge still facing us , even among those who support Indy – as Roddy’s ( equally excellent ) post refers to . There are nonetheless hopeful signs that this ” best kept secret ” – eg we as a nation already possess the right , and means , to liberate ourselves from English dominion and it certainly does not consist of asking permission from our oppressors – is being more widely disseminated and understood , a process that would be accelerated greatly if only our current Leadership would participate in the dissemination of that utterly crucial information at every opportunity rather than deferring to the rigged rules of the Brit Nat State .
Gayle, one of the best analogies I have seen and heard was when I was watching a programme about Native Americans. The Sioux, Cheyenne and Arapaho had, before the great advance into the West by Americans, seized some Crow tribal land. The Crows were led by the old adage, “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” and helped the whites to defeat the Plains tribes. One Crow chief was trying to explain to a couple of Sioux and Cheyenne why the Crow had ‘betrayed’ them by siding with the whites. When he explained his reasoning, the two others exchanged looks and one said: “but you are on the Crow Reservation as we live on the Sioux and Cheyenne Reservations. The white man has taken everything from us, but he has also taken everything from you.” The old Crow chief thought for a moment, then he nodded. “You are right, my friends. We are all Indians. The white man used us and we have all lost.”
Really good article – sums it all up pretty well.
I will give 1st vote to the SNP and the 2nd to an alternative indie party. However I will have to know a bit more about these partys and what they will do if they hold the balance of power etc. I have looked at the ISP website and although it seems ok, it is pretty vague and nothing much said about the people behind it. If it is that the ISP will be the main 2nd vote party, I would like to hear more from them before I can advise friends and family to vote the same way. Perhaps you and fellow bloggers could help with this?
Listen in to my Prism Podcast on Friday my Guest is the Deputy Leader of the ISP, Julie McAnulty.
SNP were comfortable as the only game in town.
This is the reason why. They name call the same reason why the labour party name called snp with tartan tories as it stepped on their territory. Labour weren’t delivering Scottish home rule and snp are beginning to waver on independence as they are not developing a coherent plan b which is being shown as necessary as neither holyrood nor Westminster elections will deliver indy. Section 30 will be refused and snp not stepping up.. I will be voting isp on list and I’m an snp member.
Yip I’m giving my List vote to the ISP, if I recall correctly the SNP gained four seat out of nearly a million List votes at the last Scottish elections, allowing in the likes of Wells and Fraser, the more independence minded parties at Holyrood the better, lets unseat the British Nationalists, well as many as we can.
Great post Roddy. I have voted SNP for 45 years. My MP is Pete Wishart. If we ever have another GE then there is no way I will vote for him. I couldn’t vote for a unionist party and the Greens just sicken me, so I will just not vote.
After everything that Wishart has said and written lately, I am now convinced that, if there is someone from ISP standing on the list in my area, they will get my second vote. I cannot understand why Wishart is so against this. He’s made it obvious that he wants to remain in WM but that’s no reason to get as nasty as he has over this.
I too will vote ISP on the list. I decided this a while ago and will encourage others to do the same. I have written to both Nicola Sturgeon and Keith Brown telling them this and explaining why. I also expressed my disappointment that the SNP appear to be treating the new Independence party (and others, still to be ok’d) as the enemy rather than allys. My constituency vote will go to the SNP as always – but only if the manifesto is clear about independence. If we have not regained our independence before the next Westminster GE I will not vote SNP so I’m hoping if that situation arises the ISP will be standing in constituencies at that time.
It’s Sturgeon’s control freakery in election mode. They KNOW asking folk to waste their votes with SNP2 crap is stupid but they like the thought that their voters are such sheep that they will do that, waste their votes electing naebody on the List. It’s like having a faithful but reliably daft dog.
But their voters deciding based on MATHEMATICS and being GUNG HO for Indy to dabble with the ISP that gives them the jitters. The Greens have been defanged, distracted. ISP at Holyrood asking awkward questions over Indy and why no progress? Speaking scientific sense about how you cannot change sex? Not be whispered about by the high heid yins of the SNP.
So the order comes down since we made them go quiet over SNP2 by calling them mathematically ignorant that all vitriol must be poured on the ISP. I have been duelling duplicitous, bait and switch Greens on Twitter they’re rattled too. I get called a Nazi and a Yoon for being in a Centre-Left party with Independence in its very name.
As a strategy it is also high risk, the more publicity they give us the more folk might wander over to http://www.isp.scot to see what all the fuss is about and find out we are perfectly acceptable, even admirable.
In my opinion, the bad feeling for voting another party on the list comes from Wings, as he started pushing the idea, despite ridiculing anything other than both votes SNP it in the past.
I’m banned for questioning his attitude, and so are most folk that used to be regular Wings posters. Stu would post a new article, then allow the comments btl to let rip. The actual article might be good, but the comments were sometimes disgusting. There was no attempt to clean up the btl mess, and it was/is a free for all of trolls and obvious plants.
The cesspit btl has totally turned a lot of folk away from his site, and I think folk are now thinking that he has another agenda. As someone that started posting on Wings in 2012, and contributed to his fundraising, it really breaks my heart.
Maybe if Stu could realise what has happened btl, and clean up his act. another Indy party might stand a chance.
I hear what you are saying however the bile,abuse and downright nastiness I have received is from people that tend to more be readers of WGD that would take the blame for Nicola’s farts if he had to. Last night I had one of the Nicola fan boys telling me I was a boil that needed lancing and that my opinion was unwanted because I didn’t live permanently in Scotland. The same shit I usually get from Unionists. I would suggest that is where a lot of the bile comes from Unionists and their narratives not the Rev Stu so much.
BTW My crime was I suggesting Nicola was a very good FM but a disaster as a Party Leader.
Sorry but I can’t agree with you. Wings did start the idea of a List Party & considered it but on reflection has obviously decided he can’t do it, for whatever reason. And that’s perfectly reasonable. I once considered campaigning to be a MSP but I know I’d be crap at it (my red hair wouldn’t allow me to keep my temper when idiots ask stupid questions or present unsubstantiated, un-sourced political ‘facts’.) so I reconsidered. We ALL change our minds all the time for a number of different reasons, most of them for good reasons.
As for the comments BTL. I’m not sure if you are referring to ALL the comments – or just the ones he writes. If you mean ALL the comments, that’s hardly his fault. He gives free rein to EVERYONE to have their say, whether obviously unionist or indy supporting. Surely that’s democratic? He allows those opposite comments to stand, for other readers to read, assess & respond to them. A balanced view of everything he writes, surely? Balanced article writing should be encouraged & something we very seldom get in our Mainstream media. We SHOULD get it through MSM – but we don’t. And we indy supporters rail against that nearly every day!
Like them, loath them or find them a ‘cesspit’ – that’s democracy. (Though to be fair, I have VERY SELDOM found them to be ‘a cesspit’. I’m a regular reader of the articles but don’t always have time to read the comments & sometimes depending on subject, it’s unlikely I’ll find the comments add much to the debate. However, whenever I HAVE read them, I can’t remember an instance of them becoming ‘a cesspit’. Some are quite sweary but that seems to be quite normal these days so nothing new there. ‘Hard hitting’ maybe but cesspit ???)
But you know – no one twists your arm to read the comments! So it’s no reason to stop reading the articles. Every now & again, if it’s something I really am keen to read, I’ll open ‘The Scotsman’ (but usually archive at same time so others can too without giving The Scotsman a penny in clickbait), But I absolutely KNOW not to read the comments, because they ARE a cesspit of baiting, nasty, foul mouthed, totally insulting & disgusting comments. The times when I’ve felt inclined to check them to see if there is any good points (or justified bad comments) someone might have added, I’ve given up by the time I’ve read half a dozen. I’m not by any means a prude! But BY GOLLY I cannot take the disgusting crap that is in them. They’re also full of deletions & going by what is left, I CAN’T IMAGINE what was deleted!! So now – I JUST DON’T GO THERE. I read the article – and I’m FINISHED with it. Wings leaves almost everything there that’s posted. He has said a few times he WILL NOT censor or delete except in exceptional circumstances… He leaves the lies, the meanness, the sweary words, the vileness to stay where it lays – & to reflect on the writer. I repeat, I see this as fair minded blogging. I don’t always like it or agree with it – but its fair.
Now if you mean Wings comments are ‘cesspit’. BTL is ‘open’… But if you comment in a way he doesn’t agree with, he’ll say so. And he’ll probably do it in such a way you feel like you’ve been slapped. Oh, I KNOW this feeling! But hey – HIS blog, HIS rules, he gets to answer to any criticism. THEM’S the rules. I don’t agree that kind of response is necessary or helpful, but… not my blog. But NONE OF THAT detracts from the fact that his articles are based on as close to the truth as you are going to get from ANYONE else, and are not just more ‘opinion’. I’d rather have truth than forego truthful articles because I can’t handle name calling or bad attitude.
I continue to read the articles because they are critically analysed, the ideas, theories & FACTS are backed up and supported by resources, links & actual pieces of legislation. Because I know Wings has ‘sources’ in places and in positions to give out credible information that FOI’s don’t & stuff that has been forbidden to be released. Wings has so often been the first to give us relevant insight to things we’d never dream was going on in places we tend to think of as ‘open, inclusive & can withstand scrutiny’. I want to know what’s going on in my government. I want to know what my vote is foisting on the country, be it good or bad. I want to know so I can make sure I don’t vote for it again & harm my children & their children – and YOUR children! If Wings knows ‘stuff’, and writes articles about it, I want to read them! That’s worth more to me than worrying about a ‘cesspit’. Sorry – that’s my 2 (okay, maybe 10!) cents worth…
Well said Kate , my thoughts and feelings re WoS exactly . I’d only add that our whole movement would be a lot worse off without it , even if a large % think otherwise . I kind of expect he will be vindicated eventually , I just hope it’s not at a point too late to make any difference
Thank you Robert. I absolutely agree that the whole independence movement would be very much worse off without the Wings blog! Hence I felt I had to write my support of it. His style of writing can be… unfortunate, but one thing I really appreciate. You don’t get LIES there. I can’t think of ONE instance where he hasn’t been right about what he has written. We may not like him being right all the time, (that can be helluva annoying! LOL!) but doesn’t change the facts. What’s that wonderful Scottish saying: ‘Facts are chiels that winnae ding’?
I think he will be vindicated (and I think sooner, rather than later). But like you, I DO VERY MUCH HOPE it isn’t too late, too!
Well said kate, i couldnt have put it better myself.
Sorry Kate, but he doesn’t give ‘free reign to EVERYONE’
Almost all the regular posters from around 2014 have been banned for disagreeing with him.
Yes, actually he DOES give free rein to everyone. And he bans people. But very, very seldom in the first instance. He will respond first to an original comment & it’s how the commenter responds to his response that determines what he does next. If he doesn’t like how they respond, (which is the commenter’s decision) then yes often he does ban them. But my point was & is… the first comments are ‘almost always’ left exactly as they are, even after the ban.
But I just don’t get why people get so twisted up into a knot about being banned by him. We ALL ban people, or block them out of our Twitter Feed or ‘Unfriend them’ on Facebook. Why is it such a big deal when he does it?? Every blogger does it at some point, with various commenters that refuse to debate & prefer to sling insults. I’m sure you yourself have blocked a few people from your timeline? I sure have! There’s things I won’t tolerate on MY timeline, ie being childish (this ‘Nippy’ or ‘Krankie’ thing – just daft nonsense with no intention to say anything of value so automatic block with me) rather than evidence based debate. Being snide… Be cheeky, disagree, be angry even… but don’t be snide or insulting. BAN!) We all have our limits. Whether we like each other’s limits or agree on what we’re prepared to put up with, is again individual. Unfortunately Wings doesn’t suffer fools lightly or gladly. I don’t see that as a particularly good thing either, because I’m sure it doesn’t win him many friends. But – that’s his problem, not mine.
But what I said still stands… what he writes, how he sources it, links to prove/disprove a point, the fact you don’t get lies, spin or simply opinion, but facts, backed up & sourced, is his strength. His amazing ability to analyse & pick out the pertinent lies, spin & downright dishonesty of the unionist movement is uncanny and his opponents get away with VERY LITTLE once he starts analysing the basis of their arguments.
Unfortunately for some in the Indy Movement, he applies it to the Indy side too. HIS MAIN AIM IS INDEPENDENCE. He has NEVER pretended to be a fan of, a member of, or to support the SNP party. He has never pretended that he backs their party, their policies or their politicians. So WHY do people persist in demanding he be loyal to Nicola or anyone else? He is NOT an SNP supporter, never has pretended to be & I doubt he ever will be. HE OWES NO LOYALTY TO THEM OR NICOLA. He sees they are THE vehicle to independence. BUT if they are not focused on that, if they are not pulling their weight in the indy stakes, if they are actively working AGAINST THAT, then he says so! Why would he not??? Why would ANY of us Indy people not comment if an SNP politician is actively working AGAINST the very ideology they stand for??? Because some ARE. That’s obvious and if we want independence, that has to stop! If Wings points that out, surely we should want to discuss it, stop it and get the party RE-focused on Indy?!.
Instead, it seems to me that people want to shoot the messenger, rather than face the truth. And because they don’t like the messenger, because they find him belligerent, unfriendly, quick to jump on people, they’d rather shoot the person that strips the issue bare, exposes the truth & writes of the perfidy. Not exactly helpful to the cause. I really don’t get how some folks, who want Independence so much, would rather nurse hatred of someone because the messenger doesn’t love Nicola they way they do, and ignore the what he is exposing, than accept what is being said & actually do something to GET that independence they want. Which is more important? We don’t have TIME for that hating nonsense! We don’t have to be friends with one another. We just have to fight together to win something we all dream of. But we can’t win if we aren’t prepared to listen to one of Indy side’s best assets. So bottom line:
Unionists hate him because he tells the truth & hunts out their lies. Accept that & then take this into consideration: given how many people are tearing into him & dissing what he’s saying, & deciding he is working contrary to the Indy movement, rather than LISTENING to what he is saying which, given evidence of people like Martin Keatings, is very likely the truth, I have to wonder… are those people calling Wings out really indy people?? I know what I believe…
I have been reading and posting on WOS since 2014 and I remember you well , I also remember well being rounded on on a few occasions by diehard SNP supporters and members , I even dared to criticise the eldest poster ( you will know who I am referring to ) for his abrupt condescending manner addressing other posters for which I ended up with a flea in my ear , without appearing to be tit for tat moaning many posters to WGD who have tried to interact with the comments section have also been rounded on and sometimes quite viciously when questioning NS motives and policies , TBQH I now don’t post or visit WGD because the unquestioning loyalty to NS and SNP irrespective of evidence to the contrary is unhealthy . I truly believe in independence for our country but unfortunately I don’t believe NS has the passion or fight for it , she is more interested in being a big fish in a small pond
Agreed! I too dropped a note to Mr. Brown (and others) saying much the same. I also indicated the manifesto for the May election should also show some stratigising outcomes, for me the bargain basement would be the development of an East Coast ferry port (I think that should have been put in place for Brexit) and a West Coast Interconnector to the Republic of Ireland so we can distribute electricity to Europe. There was a few other things too, Ahm no hauddin ma breth… As frankly, I’m about done with the SNP’s inaction, lack of communication and the entitlement some MPs and MSPs show. Maybe their vehicle has run out of juice, maybe they’ve ran out of smeddum.
Excellent piece, BB. It is hard to be attacked and accused of all sorts by your own side. Just keep on putting out your blogs, explaining why we should be looking to maximise our chances of success. Let people know that, in many constituencies, a second vote for the ISP makes sense, albeit not in all. The SNP should have come to an informal agreement with the other List parties by now and shown where a List vote for the SNP does not good at all, is wasted and lets in the opposition. I think this is down to their desperation to get a majority of the votes at some point, rather than just a majority of the seats, although a majority of seats is the democratic spirit level of the UK. However, a majority of pro indy votes, whether through the SNP or another List party still makes sense if you have coalition government – and we do, we have had it. The Unionists will try and say that the SNP lost votes, but they simply need to be reminded that there is still a majority of pro indy votes. They’ll get it when they have no elected representatives – which would be their just desserts.
Hi Lorna . I’m not really up on all the technicalities/implications regarding the voting system so could you explain in what constituencies it would NOT be productive to vote ISP , also , it you don’t mind , what the mechanism is for electing new SNP leaders , I googled this question to no avail , and having heard others express the fear that if NS is forced , or chooses to resign she could simply anoint a favourite ie Angus Robertson , is that within her power ? Needless to say ( but I will anyway ) great comments from you as per
Firstly since the ISP are not standing in constituencies (your first vote) it is not a constituency matter. So do whatever you want with your constituency vote.
When it comes to the List vote, the one with just parties not people on it, that’s where the ISP will be and that is a regional thing, not just your constituency. That is when we would like you to vote for us. For Yessers instead of unionists at Holyrood, For folk who won’t let the SNP forget about indy, at every FMQ’s at the very least, for folk who will never compromise or sell out women’s rights then vote for us. Make our parliament a better place and make Indy much more likely.
Thanks Muscleguy . I’m literally asking for a friend/friends , I live abroad so unable to vote myself ( though it’s possible I may be home in Scotland by May ) , but very supportive of the 2nd Indy Party option – duh ! kinda no-brainer really . I will be recommending you guys , and to be honest , I think one strong new Indy Party would be better than a plethora . My area is Highlands and Islands , don’t know how many candidates you’ll be standing but good luck to all who are , and in the H.E generally , could be a game-changer .
Hi Lorna . I’m not that well up on the vagaries of our voting system so could you explain in what constituencies it would NOT be productive to vote ISP on the List as per you reference to that effect above ; also , if you don’t mind , could you tell me the mechanism for choosing new SNP leaders , I googled this question to no avail . I’m curious because I’ve seen many express their fear that if NS is forced , or chooses , to step-down she would simply anoint a favourite ( to carry-on her great work of imposing extremely unpopular policies on our country !! ) to replace her ie Angus Robertson or somesuch line-toeing WM appeaser , does she actually have to power to do this ?
Sorry for the double posting
‘I would also appreciate if anyone can explain this recent phenomenon. Why is it for the first time ever that voting for a pro independence party on the Holyrood List is, so bad and so evil, so undemocratic and so dangerous to Scottish independence? ‘
I am ignorant of politics but to me it seems obvious. They are scared shitless of competition.
The weird thing is, and this could be very naive of me, is that they are creating a competition which need never have existed (except about GRA/HCB which is all on the SNP). The more aggressive the SNP are against ISP, the more they highlight the differences and the more they fuel their fear that ISP are a threat to them, not in the 2014 election but in the future.
What did the SNP think that they would be the only party in town for ever?
This could explain why there is a hesitancy about getting Independence. They will then have real opposition to fight rather than knee jerk England parties. I can’t wait for there to be some real opposition in Scotland. The SNP are becoming far too much part of the establishment.
Roddy
It’s very rare I disagree with you but I have to disagree that Nicola Sturgeon is a good First Minister she only gives the appearance of one.
A good First Minister would never allow her/his government to be in the state it’s currently in, a good First Minister would never allow herself/himself to be embroiled in corruption and criminal conspiracies, A good First Minister knows how to delegate responsibility, a good First Minister doesn’t lie to Parliament and by extension the people she’s/he’s been elected to serve, a good First Minister keeps her/his promises, I could go on but I’ll end there
Nicola Sturgeon is a contemptible fraud
Fishy Wullie , thank you I agree with every one of your reasons and also her capitulation and subjugation to WM whilst our citizens suffer needlessly , her craven cowardice to WM has made our countries independence even more difficult
Very good article Roddy and the answer to your question is in two parts. There are the ordinary members of the SNP and general yes supporters who are of the less than able to think for themselves club, together with a large number of the Nicoka fan club and Nicola has a clever plan brigade, who will believe anything that emanates from the higher echelons of the SNP.
As you know, the party leadership is hell-bent of sticking to this stupid section 30 nonsense, therefore the aforementioned group of poor souls naturally follow blindly anything that comes from the leadership and act like a pack of attack dogs trying to suppress what they see as dissent.
Now the main problem is why are the leaders hell-bent on policies that will harm the cause of independence, Well quite simply, because they do not want independence. The exact reasons, I do not know although I have my own theory, but, having looked at Nicola Sturgeon’s record since she became leader I can put no other construction on her actions, other than she is anti-independence
Good article and I will definitely be giving my list vote to another pro indy party in the upcoming election (for the first time in my life voting for someone other than SNP)
Which party that is will depend on who is on the list in my area but it won’t be the Greens as my vote has always been for a pro independence party and not for a party who are for independence if it gives them a platform they’d other wise not have. (BTW what is it you are refering to in the article about the Greens taking away women’s rights? I do hope it’s not a pro Terf statement.)
The T word is offensive and it would be appreciated if you didn’t use it on here. The question you ask suggests you are either needing to increase your own knowledge by means of your own research or you are trying to engineer a confrontation.